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November 9, 2011
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Somalia Vs Free Market by BlameThe1st Somalia Vs Free Market by BlameThe1st
Why is it that the stupidest talking points also tend to be the most heavily repeated? If I had a dime for every time I heard Somalia used as an example of libertarianism or free-market capitalism, my fortune could possibly rival that of Bill Gates.

Somalia has no form of government. That means it’s under anarchy. Libertarians and free-market capitalists do want government; they just want to limit its power over the people, especially the market. Therefore, Somalia is not an example of either libertarianism or free-market capitalism.

Unfortunately, such logic does not pervade the minds of libtarded moonbats like Sam Seder, who recently claimed that the best way to debunk libertarians is to simply let them talk.

VIDEO: How To Debunk A Libertarian: Let Them Talk
The free market does not exist. There is no unencumbered market.…Maybe in Somalia.…That’s what a free market is. It is feudalism. It is who has got more guns…or swords, and arrows. They’re the ones who are going to…accumulate the most wealth. Capitalism can only function properly with strong government controls that protect consumers and workers from the excesses of capitalism. It’s not even the excesses. It’s the operation of capitalism.
I love how he assumes that libertarianism or free-market capitalism is about allowing whoever has the most guns the right to rule, even though both philosophies reject the use of force through the non-aggression principle. As one person said in the comment section: “Well, if that's his concern then it makes no sense to grant the state exclusive monopoly on the use of the biggest, baddest guns in society, does it?”

But Seder is half-right about the free market. There has been no true free market, as all markets have had some level of regulation, which is necessary to an extent. However, there are markets which are freer than others, the perfect example being Hong Kong. From Wikipedia:
As one of the world's leading international financial centers, Hong Kong has a major capitalist service economy characterized by low taxation and free trade. The currency, Hong Kong dollar, is the eight most traded currency in the world as of 2010. Hong Kong was once described by Milton Friedman as the world’s greatest experiment in laissez-faire capitalism. It maintains a highly developed capitalist economy, ranked the freest in the world by the Index of Economic Freedom for 15 consecutive years. It is an important centre for international finance and trade, with one of the greatest concentrations of corporate headquarters in the Asia-Pacific region, and is known as one of the Four Asian Tigers for its high growth rates and rapid development from the 1960s to the 1990s. Between 1961 and 1997 Hong Kong's gross domestic product grew 180 times while per-capita GDP increased 87 times over.

The Hong Kong Stock Exchange is the seventh largest in the world, with a market capitalization of US$2.3 trillion as of December 2009. In that year, Hong Kong raised 22 percent of worldwide initial public offering (IPO) capital, making it the largest centre of IPOs in the world and the easiest place to raise capital. Hong Kong's currency is the Hong Kong dollar, which has been pegged to the U.S. dollar since 1983.

The Hong Kong Government has traditionally played a mostly passive role in the economy, with little by way of industrial policy and almost no import or export controls. Market forces and the private sector were allowed to determine practical development. Under the official policy of "positive non-interventionism", Hong Kong is often cited as an example of laissez-faire capitalism. Following the Second World War, Hong Kong industrialized rapidly as a manufacturing centre driven by exports, and then underwent a rapid transition to a service-based economy in the 1980s. Since then, it has grown to become a leading center for management, financial, IT, business consultation and professional services.
Hong Kong is but the leading example. The remaining Top 10 freest economies are Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Canada, Ireland, Denmark, the United States, and Bahrain. As for Somalia, it isn’t even listed on the Index of Economic Freedom World Rankings. So much for it being a libertarian free market paradise!
Add a Comment:
 
:iconkgb-101:
KGB-101 Featured By Owner May 15, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
You forgot that Somalia has been going through a Civil War since 1991. But the main reason why comparing Hong Kong to to Somalia is stupid is because one as a form of government, while the other is a 3rd world country with no government and who's main income is piracy.  
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner May 15, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
So you agree that using Somalia as an example of anything is stupid. Thank you for proving my point.
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:iconkgb-101:
KGB-101 Featured By Owner May 15, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Yes. The photo above is now irreverent, we both agree on this. 
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner May 15, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
No, it's to prove that Somalia is not a free-market libertarian paradise.
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:iconashkinmor:
Ashkinmor Featured By Owner Dec 21, 2013
 In place where is 99%population of believers and piracy exist yet, you can't even think about free market.
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:icondystatic-studio:
Dystatic-Studio Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
I see those comments of this articles, and I find them funny is: people love to see the freedom breaks apart, while the worst slum in the world becomes the super powerhouse.

Ironic mindset, no?
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Oct 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Not sure where you're coming from.
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:icondystatic-studio:
Dystatic-Studio Featured By Owner Oct 2, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
I thought you would read my page to find out. So, I am indeed living in a place of "free market" like you said.
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:iconjackkazim:
jackkazim Featured By Owner Jun 21, 2013
I've lived in Hong Kong before. It is amazing. A true example of a free market.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Jun 22, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Too bad other people don't see it the same way.
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:iconjackkazim:
jackkazim Featured By Owner Jun 23, 2013
Yeah if only they knew. I mean sure force exists in a free market but, the government prosecutes the force (as forces involves harm to another individual) and compensates the victim, this protects the integrity of the free-market system.
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:iconshirouzhiwu:
ShirouZhiwu Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I hate cities. I tried to like city life for a decade, but it damn near killed me from within. as a result, I see both as hell on earth. That being said, the one on the right looks easier to survive.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
That's the reaction I wanted.
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:iconbttlrp:
bttlrp Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013
Hasn't stopped the Mises institute having a crack at defending it! [link] [link]
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Hmm. It seems that their argument is that the country and its economy has been improving since they overthrew their tyrannical dictator, which would be a valid argument to make.
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:iconcapitalismisliberty:
CapitalismIsLiberty Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2012
Although now under China control I am sure that they have been eroding that free market, at least a bit at a time.
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:iconcapitalismisliberty:
CapitalismIsLiberty Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2012
True, they haven't looted it all at once. But I personally wouldn't put much faith in dictators. I'm sure they've been making small tweaks. But if a protest broke out over some policy or overreach - I think things could go downhill real fast.

Maybe that's just the cynic in me.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Well so far they've managed to remain relatively free for the past 13 years.
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:iconcapitalismisliberty:
CapitalismIsLiberty Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2012
True, they haven't looted it all at once. But I personally wouldn't put much faith in dictators. I'm sure they've been making small tweaks. But if a protest broke out over some policy or overreach - I think things could go downhill real fast.

Maybe that's just the cynic in me.
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:iconjohnnycanterlot:
JohnnyCanterlot Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Hobbyist
Thank you, I am tired of arguing with red's and them thinking that Somalia is some kind of Free-Market Failure, When Ironically originally they were ruled by a rather dictatorial socialist government.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Another brony who's a lib? Nice! :D
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:iconjohnnycanterlot:
JohnnyCanterlot Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2012  Hobbyist
yes apparently where rare, I have a feeling I'm the only Anarcho-capitalist brony in my whole country
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 7, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
From what I hear, both Australia and New Zealand have freer economies that the States. It also tends to be more conservative too. Heck, the socialized medicine and rampant atheism aside, I think Aussieland would make for a great getaway if things go rotten up here.
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:iconcapitalismisliberty:
CapitalismIsLiberty Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2012
Updated Economic freedom index.
[link]

US has been sliding since W actually. Of course, this doesn't count civil liberties -Australia went big on gun control for example.

But the US is a hair's breath away from falling out of the top 10.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
True, but we're not that far.
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:iconjohnnycanterlot:
JohnnyCanterlot Featured By Owner Dec 7, 2012  Hobbyist
Funny, because the "Liberal party of Australia" actually refers to economic liberalism, and is considered the "Conservative" party, Whereas the "Labor party" is the social democratic party. So it can become confusing to talk to Americans about Australian politics because we use the terms correctly, Whereas in america "Liberal" is considered "left wing" on both economics and civil liberties. And besides religion in Australia isn't much of an issue, both atheist's and theist's are both very apathetic to one another
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 9, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
True. I personally don't care for the current left/right paradigm. It's clearly outdated. I prefer libertarian/authoritarian. More clearly defined.

No problem with the religious part. I don't like discussing my religion anyway.
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:iconmillion7:
million7 Featured By Owner Nov 19, 2012
Amen!
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:iconmillion7:
million7 Featured By Owner Nov 19, 2012
Love this!
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Nov 20, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks! ;)
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:iconlinkxnabooru4ever:
LinkxNabooru4ever Featured By Owner Nov 8, 2012
Thank you! I was so fucking sick of the Somalia crap comparison too.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Nov 8, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Hopefully this extremely easy to understand comparison will get through the thick skulls of statists. Though judging from the comments below, that doesn’t seem to be the case.
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:iconartfandecanada22:
artfandecanada22 Featured By Owner Oct 24, 2012
The very definition of a free market is an economic system with little to no government control, marked by the unrestricted competition between privately owned companies. So, yes, Somalia is a free market. Whether or not you think a government should exist does not change the definition of a free market.

The reason for the situation that Somalia and many other nations in the developing world are in now are because of the exploitation of colonialism which ended for many in the 60s. Promptly afterwards, capitalist multinational corporations, neo-liberal governments, and international institutes (ie. IMF, World Bank) resumed exploitation of many of these nations, ensuring that their home nations (often in the global North) enjoy a greater slice of the economic pie than these exploited nations. After all, "development" is a zero-sum game.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Oct 25, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Somalia is pure anarchy. It is a non-market. And as I pointed out, Hong Kong is the closest thing we have to a free market and it’s economically prosperous. Same goes for the other countries listed in the Index of Economic Freedom.

Somalia is in the state it is in because of the corrupt tyranny of its former leader which eventually led to its own collapse. Big government has a tendency to collapse under its own weight like that.
Reply
:icontohokari-steel:
Tohokari-Steel Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2012
I've heard this saying:
"China didn't gain control of Hong Kong. Hong Kong gained control of China."

Also, isn't it rather curious that Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, AND New Zealand were all once British colonies (thus, subject to colonialism) and yet most of them are economic powerhouses?
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Gee, it's almost as if third world countries became prosperous once they were introduced to Western civilization.
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:icondystatic-studio:
Dystatic-Studio Featured By Owner Oct 14, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
That because they're modernized those for keeping the global and regional affection under the Royal reputation. The Queen has called under the democratic demands to make these colonies grew better than their own Britannia isles. Funny thing is, they really not worry to return sovereignty back to the native owner besides Falklands, as long as they're still having financial benefit for the UK.
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:iconisaacbaranoff:
isaacbaranoff Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2012  Professional Traditional Artist
Yes, thank you!
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Welcome! ;)
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:iconmamonth:
Mamonth Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2012
I suppose it is not economic system, but mostly politics... Somalia is kinda in anarchy right now.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Mar 19, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
And the reason it's in anarchy is because its tyrannical government collapsed upon itself. Nothing to do with anarchism.
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:iconstarlow-ftw:
Starlow-FTW Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012
There is a proven correlation between economic strength and economic freedom. I wouldn't call Somalia any form of economic freedom. It is under the control of various criminals, terrorists, and violent warlords.
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:iconrhetorichaystack:
RhetoricHaystack Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012  Professional General Artist
so you use a simplistic attack to counter a simplistic attack. you are such a toddler, blamey.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Mar 19, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Give and take.
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:icontbschemer:
TBSchemer Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012
Sometimes the truth is simple.
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:iconrhetorichaystack:
RhetoricHaystack Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012  Professional General Artist
so the simplistic charge could be just as true as the simplistic defense. 'the truth' is in this case, merely your preferred propaganda. we should all line up behind our favorite hyperbole and see how far we get from the truth.
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:icontbschemer:
TBSchemer Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012
Reality is not subjective. Somalia is not a free market society. Centralization of power over the economy does not allow the sort of prosperity seen in Hong Kong.
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:iconrhetorichaystack:
RhetoricHaystack Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012  Professional General Artist
i understood what the deviation was trying to say. did you understand what i said?
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:iconshanhikari:
ShanHikari Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012
I agree with this statement, and I wish there was a T-Shirt for it, if you wouldn't mind I'd like to download it with your permission and share this with some friends that don't frequent DA.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Go ahead. Just credit me.
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