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December 23, 2013
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There is plenty of room for gray area in morality. But sometimes, some things are black and white with no ounce of gray in between. One of those things is infanticide, which is clearly black. And while one should always have a well-reasoned constructive argument against something, as blogger Matt Walsh explains, sometimes, no argument is needed:
I don’t know how else to explain this. Can I really formulate an argument that will explain why we shouldn’t murder disabled children? If you don’t immediately recognize the eugenic slaughter of handicapped babies as something severely troubling, I’m not sure that I can offer any insights to help you understand.

You see, this is the problem. This is why we can’t come to any agreements. This is why our arguments are fruitless. They don’t have to be — arguing could be a rather worthwhile activity. But a constructive argument, or debate, or dialogue, or whatever you want to call it, requires both parties to have some shared concept of right vs wrong and fact vs fiction. Without that, neither side can appeal to the other, because they both exist in entirely different universes.

So, me personally, I’m livin’ over here in a world where it’s never OK to execute a disabled baby, or any baby, for any reason. In fact, in my universe — a universe we might call “reality” — the murder of children could be, without hyperbole, classified as THE worst thing. It is the worst of all that is bad. It is the lowest of low. It is the ugliest of ugly. It is the Pinnacle of Wrong. If it isn’t wrong to kill children, then it can not be wrong to do anything else.
Again, there is always room for discussion and debate within morality. There is room for gray area, for nuance. But some things are clearly black and white. Some things are off the table. Killing a newborn baby, regardless of its health, is one of those things.

Infanticide is wrong--absolutely, always, 100 percent wrong. No exceptions. No excuses. No ifs, ands, or buts. No pros and cons. No compromise. No discussion. No debate. No elucidation. No rationalization.

You don't need an argument for that. You just need a conscience. If you can't understand that, you are a psychopath, plain and simple, and no argument will convince you otherwise. That doesn't make me closed-or-narrow-minded. That makes me human.

So what does it say of us as a species when scientists claim there is no difference between infanticide and abortion?
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:icontuharbc:
tuharbc Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2014
A baby can feel and think (to some degree).  A few month old fetus whose brain is still developing can not.  It's not really fair to compare the two.
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:iconmissmuffintop:
MissMuffinTop Featured By Owner May 9, 2014   Writer
Hi! Would you rather reduce the number of abortions with left-wing policies, or perpetuate them with right-wing ones?

'cuz I have some interesting information for you if you can bother to be apolitical about means, just the ends, of this issue. 
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner May 9, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Can't really think of any left-wing policies that reduce abortions. Sorry.
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:iconmissmuffintop:
MissMuffinTop Featured By Owner May 9, 2014   Writer
So, here's the premise: unwanted pregnancies are what cause abortions. Preventing unwanted pregnancy prevents abortions, because they become unnecessary in a lot of cases. 

So to prevent unwanted pregnancies and thus prevent abortions...well, I don't see the right putting that together. Comprehensive, compulsory sex ed, family planning, ease of access to contraception...these are all things that prevent unwanted pregnancy. Less unwanted pregnancies, fewer abortions. That's just common sense. 

From there, it's a matter of being able to afford your child. If maternity leave, subsidized childcare, universal health insurance for pregnant women and children, were priorities of the pro-life movement, I would maybe see how they care about children. It seems like you people stop caring once they're born, and would rather call people parasites than actually make it so abortions are less necessary in over three fourths of the cases.

The solution to the problem isn't in slut-shaming, it's in compassion and assistance for people in desperate situations. I do not know why the pro-life side has to resort to bombs (yeah yeah, it's rare, but there are pro-life terrorists, and they kill people, why would an ideology about the sanctity of life resort to ending lives?) when some policy solutions that would make child-rearing feasible for everyone would cause steep declines in abortion rates without all the violence, misogyny, and misinformation. 

For more information, read this

Oh, and I am surprised you, a libertarian, want the government getting between a woman and her doctor. I thought that was why you people hate Obamacare so much. Just feels inconsistent with all that liberty talk.
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:iconbttlrp:
bttlrp Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2014
"some things are black and white with no ounce of gray in between."
That's called dogmatism.
"One of those things is infanticide, which is clearly black."
"But some things are clearly black and white."
"Infanticide is wrong--absolutely, always, 100 percent wrong."
Highly convincing argument bro

"You don't need an argument for that."
I guess you don't need to bother ever providing one then! ^_^


No difference between infanticide and abortion? What an interesting opinion which no amount of expertise or science can establish as fact.

"X is wrong--absolutely, always, 100 percent wrong. No exceptions. No excuses. No ifs, ands, or buts. No pros and cons. No compromise. No discussion. No debate. No elucidation. No rationalization.

You don't need an argument for that. You just need a conscience. If you can't understand that, you are a psychopath, plain and simple, and no argument will convince you otherwise. That doesn't make me closed-or-narrow-minded. That makes me human."

As an experiment, try replacing 'Infanticide' in those three lines with anything at all. See where it gets you. How do you expect to win any supporters if you can't even be bothered to present a rational argument, no matter how unconvincing? 
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm sorry if I allow no exceptions for killing babies. I would suspect most morally sound individuals would be like that.
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:iconbttlrp:
bttlrp Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2014
Ok, but don't expect to win any support if you can't justify it rationally.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
What's there to justify? Killing an infant takes away the life of an innocent human being. There's no other justification than that!
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:iconbttlrp:
bttlrp Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2014
Justifying your antipathy of abortion, I mean. That's what's to be justified. The abortion of an unborn foetus is not necessarily that of a person, because it has had no experiences, sensations or conscious feelings. A foetus cannot feel pain til the very last stages of a pregnancy. 
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:iconkyrtuck:
kyrtuck Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
Killing babies is sad because they are something you can actually see and hold and take care of, they are an individual being that need love and care.

You don't really get that with fetuses. I mean when its like 6 months along and you can feel it kicking, then yeah, caring about it would make sense. But otherwise, I just don't get people saying Abortian and infatcide are identical. I tried to make that point myself earlier.
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:iconborogovelm:
BorogoveLM Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2013  Student General Artist
For people who staple "reason" all over their content, you guys sure make a lot of emotional arguments.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Emotion is what makes us human.
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:icontakisan111:
Takisan111 Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2013
When I read the title I thought this would be a discussion on abortion. I was not expecting a story on whether murdering of disabled children was ok or not. This freaking the hell out of me. Lots of people have registered disabilities now a days. Where is the line? Who decides what qualities are death worthy? I think the public has been more then generous with abortion laws but this is a clear violation of something. 

My mind suddenly switched over to China where it is a normal practice to abort and kill daughters since families can only have one child and it's more important over there to have sons. I've heard of people doing stuff like that here in the States too so it's not just a foreign thing. We need more lines. Now!
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I would say that humanity is becoming more depraved, but I have to wonder when they were never deprived.
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:icontohokari-steel:
Tohokari-Steel Featured By Owner Dec 25, 2013
I just remember my reaction upon hearing this: "Are we the Nazis now? Do we simply kill what does not suit our idea of perfection?"
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 25, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Most great civilizations tend to devolve into barbarism that way.
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:iconamanda2324:
amanda2324 Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Well, I can see why the scientists would say that. If someone is willing to kill an unborn baby, why /not/ be also willing to kill a born one? There really aren't many differences at all. The Pro-Abortion side fails to give a concrete answer as to when it is or is not okay to kill the unborn child. Thus, why not push the line further? Who are you to tell women what to do with the thing/parasite that they carried for nine months? Who are you to tell the woman that she can't punish the criminal that used her body without her permission?

Then, as the scientists point out, under what circumstances or what criteria do we give born babies the right to life? The fact that you cannot articulate an argument against this idea, I find, problematic. Why can't even the foundations of our morals, the unspoken and agreed of assumptions, be explained and argued? If they cannot be explained, nor argued, then doesn't that make them questionable?

I do agree, killing an already born infant is wrong. But in short, I can't say I'm surprised with this. I already tried to tell people this would begin arising years ago. Did they listen? Nope. Now they're all going to pretend like they don't know what went wrong.
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:iconpalemeno:
Palemeno Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013

It is all so very sad that this is even discussed. I thougt it so bad that the authors of the article said the topic was to presnt well reasoned arguments based on widely accpted premises. What?

I wonder if any of them are thankul their mothers decided to not abort them or decide to kill them after they were born.

After all they could have just gotten another one.

I hate abortion. It is never right for an reason

I have been ashamed of my own gender when I have had debates with atheist about this same topic.

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:iconflipswitchmandering:
FlipswitchMANDERING Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013
It's insanity....

I had to explain to people on reddit why someone holding a bong to a new born's face was wrong.

I got -50 comment karma.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 24, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Reddit isn't exactly known for having the brightest apples in the bunch.
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:iconlordthawkeye:
LordTHawkeye Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013
Steven Hawkings, a man with all manner of disabilities.

Yet, would anyone argue we'd be better off without him?
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Funny how those who support infanticide are shortsighted that way.
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:iconryu238:
ryu238 Featured By Owner Dec 24, 2013
LordTHawkeye is being scarcastic.
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:iconhisarcher19:
hisarcher19 Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
The first thing I ever put on this site was this saying of mine:
I've found that the hardest things to explain to someone are the things you shouldn't have to explain.  The things that are so obvious and self-evident, that you never thought you would ever have to explain it.  Which is why you'd struggle to give an answer, because you don't know HOW to explain it.

This is one such thing.  Murder is murder no matter how you put it.  If you don't understand that you're an amoral cad and a monster.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 24, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
To be fair, there are a few exceptions to murder. It's completely justifiable to kill somebody in self-defense. But infanticide? Sorry, there is none!
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:iconhisarcher19:
hisarcher19 Featured By Owner Dec 24, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Well self-defense isn't murder.  Murder is life taken for an unjust reason.  Killing a baby is just wrong.
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:iconmike-the-cat:
Mike-the-cat Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I find it so funny how liberals are so against social darwinism and eugenics, and yet they are perfectly willing to come up with ways to support things only a true nazi or fascist could support.  Just read my signature.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Eugenics were originally proposed by progressives, after all.
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:iconcrimsonfalke:
CrimsonFALKE Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well said
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks! ;)
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:iconaclockworkkitten:
AClockworkKitten Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013  Student Digital Artist
What the fuck is wrong with this world?
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
The more appropriate question is what the :iconfluttershysqueeplz: is right with it?
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:iconrexspec:
ReXspec Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2013  Student Writer
...and a damn good question at that.  I would pray there would be "right" in this world or else people would actually get away with this crap easily.  I would pray there are people out there that are trying to stop this (along with myself) if this is happening...
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:iconcarnifex125:
carnifex125 Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013
good post. had to favorite it. keep up the good work my friend.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks! ;)
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